Stop Digging!

Nancy: I'm your host, Nancy Trader with my co host, Susan. We're here with another episode of the Stop Digging podcast, and we have a special guest with us today because we're going to have a conversation about art and culture.

Susan, tell us a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

Susan: Well, I love this. This is part of my passion is working with musicians and artists and creative people, helping them get their businesses off the ground and things like that. They're just unique and special people, and so this is close to my heart.

Um, anthropology is a study of people. And when you talk about art in anthropological terms, it's about beliefs, rituals, worldviews, symbols, and social interactions that become reflected in the media around them. I have a couple of quotes from artists and writers about art and, uh, and about culture. And let me start off with those.

A Polish architect, Daniel Leibskind: "Art and culture are not just frills, but are crucial elements of human life."

French writer Andre Malraux: "Culture is the sum of all forms of art, of love, and of thought, which in the course of centuries have enabled man to be less enslaved."

Nancy: hmm.

Susan: And lastly, we have American author Thomas Wolfe: "Culture is the arts elevated to a set of beliefs."

So in this amazing series that I'm really passionate about, Nancy, um, Inspiring diversity through cultural experiences. How we experience art can absolutely affect and inspire curiosity about people who are different, about ideas that are different beliefs, and even ideas that are different than what we already know.

And so I am so excited that we have this gentleman with us today, a consummate professional and Nancy, this is your platform here. Let's hear who we've got.

Nancy: Well, today we have very well known sculptor Gerard Basil Stripling. He's with us today. How are you?

Gerard: Uh, I'm good. Thanks. Thanks for having me on. This is a quite a treat.

Nancy: Oh, thank you. You know, I heard about you through an interview that you did, uh, back in February with a radio station in Laguna Beach. That's your hometown, right?

Gerard: Yeah, that's where I live with my family.

Nancy: Oh, wonderful. How long have you been in Laguna?

Gerard: We've been there since 2000. So, uh, almost 24 years. It's been a while.

Nancy: So you are part of the community there now, definitely ensconced.

Gerard: Yeah, definitely. It's such a great community for artists. You know, I moved there not really knowing how to have an art career. And with all of the different opportunities with the festivals and the competitions and just the forward thinking almost every year about art, uh, I was able to start really learning about how to create a career in art.

So that's when I really truly started.

Nancy: So take us back a little bit.

Like how did you get started and what inspired you to, you know, uh, to start creating art and then how did that lead you to Laguna or Laguna Beach?

Gerard: When I was a kid, I always, loved art and I wanted to be an artist. It was either an artist or a race car driver. So I didn't know how to do either growing up in south Los Angeles. And there weren't too many of either one of those.

The only thing I really heard about being an artist was like, you know, starving artists. I didn't know any professional artists. So I kind of veered away from that. Thought I wanted to do engineering and that was just too cold, I thought, for me. So I actually went into fashion design and I graduated from FIDM and from there I worked for a costume designer. And that working for that costume designer allowed me to work with different music groups that traveled all over the world. And so, since I helped him create the clothing, I was able to jump on these different tours to take care of the costumes. And that allowed me to go to different museums and art galleries all over the world.

So I kind of gave myself kind of a real life career or just schooling in the creative arts and in between some of those tours, I would create functional art. So I'd make different tables and chairs and things and would sell them in different furniture stores in Los Angeles where I lived.

But then after meeting my wife, we were trying to figure out where to live. And I was pushing for LA area and she was pushing for Laguna Beach. And I'm kind of glad she won out because it's been a really great place to really start the actual fine art. I was able to stop doing functional art and just did fine art. And that was the key to starting the career.

Susan: Could I ask a question just for our listeners or those who are watching this? Can you describe a little bit of the differences between functional art and fine art?

Gerard: Sure. Yeah. At the time, back in the nineties, there was an Italian group called Memphis Style and they did a lot of furniture and it was brightly colored and they looked like really art objects. So when I say functional art, it's like a table or chair, something that looks like a piece of art, but then it functions as a table or a chair. And I think that was really a safe first step as an artist, not really sure about how to create a living doing this. It's like, okay, if I make something that's functional, like it's still purchase it and it's not just something that's going to stand in the corner and have to hold its own attention. So it was like an easier transition for me, I felt.

And some of them were, uh, vases and clocks. Actually, the very first thing I made was a clock and I was inspired by some things that I saw when I was in Europe and I came home and had a friend that was also an artist I grew up with. And I said, let's make this clock. And we found some different parts of things and we put it together and we were able to get it into a store and like on consignment.

Susan: How exciting was that, your first thing, getting it out there into a store, right?

Gerard: It was really cool. What was great about it is that from the conceiving it to getting it in the store was like, literally, I think, three weeks.

Susan: Wow, that's so fast.

Nancy: That's a fast success. That's really great.

Gerard: yeah, yeah, it was. And then it slowed down after that.

But...

Susan: Right...

Gerard: No, but it was, it was great after that.

Some of the bigger things took longer to build. Different things we farmed out and, you know, there was some trial and error with some pieces, but, that was just a really great introduction into the creative arts and how you can make a living doing it.

Susan: So I always have this question for artists is, when you put something out there, it's so much a part of you, there's a vulnerability to it. Yeah, everybody likes the money, but do you feel like when somebody buys it, I mean, what are those feelings like when somebody buys your art and it's now gone?

Gerard: The first big lesson I had in that was, it was a commission piece and it was for a client in Newport coast. And it was a sculpture that went on a kind of a rotunda type stairwell wall. And I spent a lot of time doing it. And it was made out of steel and ceramic. When I installed it and I was paid for it and I walked away and I had this sense of loss, it's like, Oh, man, I didn't charge enough for that particular thing because it really meant something, was a lot of work.

But, for the most part, when I'm creating things I almost create it just for the interaction with the public. And if there's someone that really likes it, it's actually meeting them and getting that relationship with them is the most important thing. And then when there's a sale involved, that's like, kind of the icing on the cake, you know? It's like, oh, okay, this meant something to me when I created it.

And it means sometimes the same exact thing to someone else, or it's a different feeling that they get when they purchase it. And that's just a win for me, just knowing that we're both satiated in that desire to create art and to purchase art and collect art. It's a really great feeling.

Susan: What you just described is that the thing that mitigates the grief of letting go of something is the connection that you feel by giving it.

Gerard: Yes, for sure. I feel like being created in this world as an artist and one of my purposes is to use this talent for the greater good. And I can't just keep creating pieces and leaving them in my house, that just doesn't do it. So I need to get it out there for that very reason, for others to experience, to love, to collect, to even just have a conversation about it. A lot of times when I'm at a show, the number of people that come up and we just have a conversation about a particular piece, they are leaving with something as well. They don't necessarily have to have it at home to be able to appreciate it and have an experience with it.

It really is important to keep creating it. It's not the easiest profession when you're creating something that's not necessarily a need for most people, um, on the surface. I think there is a need for creativity and expression and being soulful. But it is very rewarding when those exchanges happen.

Nancy: I really like that, that quality of creating art that you're talking about, the connection. And Susan mentioned the giving away and the person receiving, the joy of the person who is receiving the art and then also the affirmation for you as the artist. That's the payoff.

You did a show recently and you had these regular objects and I listened to your interview on the radio. Can you tell us about that show and what the purpose was behind What you created? 'Cause I have questions about it.

Gerard: Yeah, sure. It came about pretty quickly.

It was at the Honarkar Foundation and it was called Freedom Fading, Innocence Lost: America's Wake Up Call. And I created the show to really bring to mind what has been transpiring over several years here in the United States, where I'm always a big advocate for freedom and being able to choose what kind of a life we want to live and lead. And I feel like a lot of those freedoms are lost, kind of going away.

So the show was different types of objects that we've all used in our past, like a tricycle and a Red Ryder wagon or the school desk and their bronze pieces that were on the ground. So the surface of the gallery, and then I created the same pieces in canvas that were painted all white and they were hanging on the walls. And that is to signify like, our freedoms and our childhood and our childhood memories are going away for our children and friends and nieces and nephews and things like that. So, when one were to walk into the gallery, they would see these objects and then look up and then the ones that were on the wall look like they were almost, like, kind of floating away.

And that was to signify like, we're losing some of these freedoms and it's important for us as adults to fight and speak up and try to reign those things back in. There's so much that kids are exposed to these days, especially with social media and in schools and playground all over the place that it's important to keep that innocence and have it not go away so fast.

Susan: I love that because as adults, we kind of look and we think, you know, it's inevitable that innocence becomes lost. But I think what you're describing is the fact that innocence is also a valuable thing that should be protected as long as possible. Because there are things that happen during that time of innocence that you can only get during that time of innocence.

Gerard: So true.

Susan: Whether it's a wagon, a big wheel running wild through the neighborhood and not being afraid. You know, even my own child, who's grown now, his generation, they grew up on video games and computers. Just as a normal thing. So looking things up, discovering for yourself, asking questions and not just Googling it, so to speak, and getting answers from people, that's something that's lost that curiosity, that drive to discover for yourself, how things are and who you are.

That's something that there are elements of that you can only really discover through that innocence. So I love that.

Gerard: Yeah, so true. It's important, I think, for kids to be able to put those screens down and be able to be out in nature and just discover, like you said, just be able to look at a tree or look at a seed pod or something and look at it deeper and just be out in the world and in nature. It's such a totally different experience. It does things physiologically to us where we are so much calmer when we're out in nature and out in the woods or creating something that doesn't exist, just kind of coming up with that creativity just from yourself is important, not only just in art, but in any field of study. Just being creative, creative thinking.

Susan: Well, also the freedom because you become more confident in yourself and less reliant on other people telling you how things are.

Gerard: Yeah.

Susan: So, if you're looking at a tree and you're using your curiosity to think, "Oh, how did this come to be?" imagining what it was like as a seedling or wherever your imagination takes you about that tree and its story or where it is, wondering how it works, that starts with yourself and then your exploration and your discovery. And it's so much different than going into a textbook or a science website and just getting the answer.

Gerard: Right.

Susan: You know, there's no connection. The fact that you have to go out and in that, I guess, innocent stage of life where you're discovering for yourself, it's setting up a pathway in your brain that encourages learning and challenging yourself and having confidence in your own ability to make determinations and to change yourself instead of always thinking that everyone else has the answer.

And that can also translate, not just from scientific things, but also about other people. If you hear all the time that a certain kind of person is, you know, fill in whatever label you want, if that's where it starts and stops, you may never jump that hurdle and have a connection with that person.

Nancy: Gerard, when you were explaining the show, I was very touched by it. I felt all this emotion well up in me. You just described it so beautifully. But what I thought about was when you mentioned the wagon and the tricycle and the school desk. To me, that symbolized that development of a child moving from, I'm pulling you in the wagon, I'm carrying you, the parent or the caregiver is caring for that child. And then they progress to the tricycle. Now they're kind of on their own developing as a young person. And then they progress to school where now they're developing independently, having thoughts of their own, having other mentors. And it's that progress of growing up and it was so touching.

Susan: Well, it's the human experience.

Nancy: Exactly. That's what it is.

Susan: And it's what connects all of us.

Gerard: Yeah. It really is. When I was at the show, there was different discussions when people would come in and one person said, "I grew up in Europe." When she came to the United States, her daughter had a wagon and she said, "We all have that experience with a wagon." And everyone has a story no matter where you come from, black, white, purple, whatever your, you have a story about a wagon.

One of the pieces that was in there is a tricycle that was bronze and it's called Inception. And that particular piece was something that was important to me to create because it was from a story that my mother had said was that I was always a little bit more curious than the average person, my friends or some of the other kids.

And she would say that I would ride the tricycle the normal way. And then I turn it around and ride it backwards, turn it upside down, stick something in it. And so it was like, at the very earliest, I was, you know, uniquely Gerard. So, uh, I think it was very important to create that particular piece.

Each one of us has our own particular stories where we kind of go in a different direction and experience life as we see it. I just had this conversation with my sister is that, um, growing up, I wasn't one to, um, I, how I say this, I, not necessarily just follow rules. I wasn't really a bad kid, but I would always, like, if my mother would say, "Gerard, don't go across the street," I would kind of figure out, "Okay, why does she want me to not go across the streets? Probably because, you know, I get hit by a car. If I don't go across the street, you know, you know, I look for cars and I could probably go across."

So I would go and I do things and justify them myself. So I didn't listen very well. My sisters told me that I had gone across the street and I yelled back at them, "See, nothing happened! It's okay to come across the street." But that was kind of my nature. I was always like questioning things and it was very, like, my mom would say hardheaded. And she would also say I was her most challenging child. But it was that self determination where I just, I needed to do things, I needed to find things out. I was always very, very curious. And although when I was younger, I think I would get in trouble sometimes, I think it served me as an adult because I didn't just accept the things I was told. I want to find out for myself and if something didn't sound right, I'd question it and I'd make my own decision on it.

Nancy: Talking about, you know, basically defying your mother, you're pushing boundaries, right? That's what artists do.

When you settled into Laguna Beach, how did you start finding your way in the art world there and how did you progress to get to where you are now?

Ha,

Gerard: The first show that I did was at the Sawdust Festival. When we moved there, you had to be a resident for a year in order to go into the summer show, but then they have a winter fantasy show. And I was able to get into that. So it was a show where most people sell like smaller pieces, like a gifty items. I created some things, but then I also made the first real fine art sculpture and it was a pretty large piece.

I put that in that show and interesting story about that is that it was like an amulet type looking sculpture. It had a large stone in the center with a hole in it that was about two feet large, and it was kind of a flatter stone with a hole, and it was in the garage that it was made.

When we bought the house in Laguna that it was in the garage just left there. And so I turned that into a piece of art and it was like fortuitous that it was there. And I put it on a bronze rod and then created a steel base that just kind of held it and suspended it there. It was in the middle of the booth for that show.

And I had a client come through, it was a really good friend now, Jim Peterson, and he saw the price of it and he said, "Oh wow, that's, that's too cheap. He should charge a lot more for that." And so I listened and I raised the price. I think it was $600 at the time and he came back around and I had raised it to $1200 and he said, "Whoa, I wanted to buy that." So I said, okay, I'll give you a discount. So we settled on a fair price.

That was the first sculpture, a fine art sculpture that I sold. And from there it was like, oh, this is fantastic. I enjoyed that feeling. I got to meet this man that was really, it's a great person and met his and, you know, we're still in touch. I'm still friends to this

I was able to get into the summer show the very next time. And then I had more pieces and sold more things over the years. And then, um, the first public piece was in 2004, there was an art competition held by the city of Laguna Beach. It was a request for proposals for the sculpture in Treasure Island Park. And that's just north of the Montage Resort that was being built. And I entered that, didn't have an idea of what I was going to do when we had the site visit. There were 15 artists that went on the site visit and it was such an awesome location right on the peninsula. And that's Laguna Beach on the beach, they're right on the cliff. I didn't have an idea until the weekend before. It took me that whole weekend to create the proposal and I put it together and presented it and mine was chosen.

So that was my first public piece that really got me going and like creating for the public sphere as well as private clients as well.

Susan: How did your mindset work when you got that? I mean, just going through that proposal process and being around all these other artists in a competitive situation. What was your mindset as you were going through that?

Gerard: I was pretty open to soaking in the environment, so just kind of closed my eyes after seeing it and feeling kind of the, the energy of that space and looking at the coastline and looking at how jagged the coastline was. The building wasn't there yet, I don't believe, and just seeing the architecture of the building and really taking it all in the location. At the time it was very peaceful. It wasn't kind of nervous. I'm used to competition for a long time. I used to race BMX bikes and that was always fun, you know? That was really pleasant. And then the stress was... it came into, like, what do you create then you have a blank piece of paper, you could create anything?

That's where it comes where there's a lot of different ideas. And then you have to dwindle it down to that one idea. So that was a little tough in that sense. And that's why it took me to the last minute to just kind of create a piece. But once I had the vision of what I wanted to create, it all came at once.

They're like five sculptural bronze pieces that look like very contemporary modern looking stones, that look like the sand has been excavated away. Once I saw that in my mind, then I knew, this is a great idea and that's what I'm going to present. And I felt really confident with that. Even during the presentation to everyone, I felt pretty good about it.

Nancy: So you've been doing this work for some time. I know you told us a little bit about your recent show. What are you working on now?

Gerard: Well, just recently I finished a piece that is for the seal Los Angeles. It's called Destination Crenshaw and it's the largest piece that I've done. It's the word Crenshaw. So it's a typographic sculpture. That is at the entrance of Destination Crenshaw, which is going in the south Los Angeles. It's actually where I used to live. So it's really great to have been chosen to do this particular piece. it's a 37 feet long by eight feet tall sculpture that is going to mark the entry of this area and it's made out of core 10 steel and LED lights. Fall is the opening.

That was like one of my biggest projects and it's just, it's been really rewarding. We just had a video shoot with Marquise Harris Dawson, who's the district councilman for that. And it was just really great to have that exchange and giving back something that, that I had to leave the community to, to learn how to create all this great public art. And then now I'm able to bring all that information back and share it with the community. So, it's been good.

Susan: I love hearing that thread of your life timeline, because nothing is lost. So even when you move away from something, there's threads that stay with you, that get woven back in your life. And I love that when you're able to go back and weave that thread back in to your old community. I feel like there's a meaningful validation that comes with that, from all the stuff that you went through. And just memories.

Gerard: Yeah, it really is.

and one of the things that I really have been trying to do more of as well is giving as much of the information that I've gained over the years to kind of trying to transfer that to the younger generation. Like, I started doing fine art when I was in my 30s and I was thinking, "If I would have had that information when I was 14 and 15, what would I be doing today?"

So I've been trying to transfer that information to a younger generation. I created a foundation called Studio Dosiree, which means studio to teach, and we take younger kids that are anywhere from 10, 11 to 16, and teach them high-level sculpture skills. The first class we had was in direct wax to bronze. So we used wax and they created these little miniature maquettes and we got them cast in bronze. So these kids were able, like their very first time touching the wax, they had a bronze sculpture afterwards. That's pretty cool. That was very exciting, seeing their faces. And we did a little gallery opening for them where we put them all on pedestals and bases and they came in and they saw their works presented like that.

It was just fantastic for me and them. Those are the types of skills I want to share and welding, like creative welding and other types of sculpting and mold-making. So we're trying to raise awareness, raise funds to keep doing that on a higher level.

Susan: Well, I love that. Can you give us the website again for your foundation? And then I have a question for you about all of the skills involved in your art. I think people don't realize what goes into it. But let's give you the option to get your foundation website out there.

Gerard: Sure. You can get it through my website. Currently it's GerardBasil.com and we are working on launching the Studio Dosiree website soon. I could send you a link when that is up and going.

Susan: Yeah, we'd love that.

Now, tell us about the skills, because I heard you talking about welding. We've got metal, molding, wax, uh, bases, assembly, I'm assuming, you know, engineering. If you're putting a huge stone together, there's some skill involved in that. Let's talk about some skills that you had to learn or that you already knew.

Gerard: There's so many different skills and I'll start with the very first one.

I knew how to weld with a MIG welder, which is a wire welder. When I was putting together the functional art when I presented the sculpture for the first competition, which is called Repose for the Laguna Beach. It was bronze, so it needed to be TIG welded. At the time, I didn't know how to TIG weld, but I just presented it anyway, cause I knew I was going to learn it. So TIG welding is the process of, you have a filler rod and a torch and the torch melts the base metal and you add the filler rod and you could do that with stainless steel and normal mild steel. I use that a lot in sculpture creation because it's very controlled and it's clean. And with that process, I'm able to create all sorts of things.

Also, that sculpture was done with a bronze sheet. So it was like eighth-inch bronze sheet. So it was smooth and flat and I would just cut the shapes and then weld those shapes together.

Another process of working with bronze, which is more of a traditional way, is you create a sculpture in clay, and then you make a mold of that, and then you send that mold to the printer, normally to the foundry and then from the mold, they'll make a wax sculpture.

And then from the wax sculpture, they'll cast it in bronze. Well, to shorten the process of that, I would just take wax and then just sculpt the wax into a form and then send that to the foundry and they would cast it. So it would be the loss of wax process. And that would be the only one of a kind of that sculpture. So, I had to learn how to handle the wax, manipulate it. I use torches and different dental tools and regular sculpting tools to get texture and things. So that was another process. And that's the process that I taught the kids on that, when we did the bronze, it's like, just take that whole mold making step out. The wax is not very expensive and you just create whatever you create, you just transform it into a bronze.

Uh, other skills I had to learn... I have made molds, so I learned how to make molds and I use molds to pour different textures and I have some pieces that I've made using molds and resin. I did take one year of college at Cal State Long Beach and I took engineering. I have used a lot of the engineering in creating drawings and also for the basis of things and how structurally I feel it would make it sound. And oftentimes, I send those spaces to licensed engineers to verify the calcs and a lot of times they come in and it's like, "Oh, this is fine. It's too much." Or, you know, "It's too little, just add a little bit."

So that aspect of it I enjoy as well. Enjoying each aspect of the creation of it kind of allows me to learn more about what I can do the next time, kind of like, if this base worked for that particular piece, I could do it bigger or thinner or whatever.

There is also construction, uh, excuse me, called assemblage, where you're taking different pieces and you're welding them together or gluing them together, things like that. What I tell people too is like, the sculpture kind of dictates of what it should be made out of and how it should be made. You have an idea that comes to your head and it's like, okay, it's an idea that needs to be wood and stainless in this in order to have that message that I want it to have.

Susan: Do you start with a message then first, or do you let the message emerge after you've kind of chosen the creation?

Gerard: Most of the time I start with a message or that feeling. I want to try to always create from a feeling, but then also there are things that I see out in the world that spark an idea for a sculpture. And sometimes I even have conversations with someone and then after the end, I think about what we had discussed and I had one more thing to say about it. And then I'd create a sculpture out of that, you know? Really, anything and everything is material for a new piece. I don't limit it in any way. I challenge myself to sometimes just create a sculpture from cast off pieces that are just laying around the studio and I'll pick something up and think, you know, let's just make something out of this and come up with an idea and message behind it.

It's that process leads to other ideas, to another bigger piece or some other idea. It's constantly growing and learning. I'm always trying to learn more and grow more and just have conversations.

Nancy: You've shared a lot of things with us. Your first big lesson was about creating something for the interaction with the public. you said that the relationship was the most important. That is so wonderful. You say that you're using your talent for the greater good and that you've been guided by self-determination throughout your life. It is so important for artists, anyone really, but just because it's awfully hard for artists to be seen and heard.

And then when you told the story about creating that first fine art piece, and then your friend coming along, well, this person came along and told you that you weren't charging enough. You learned the lesson of value, knowing your value, which we all struggle with. You also mentioned that your art is to inspire thoughts about freedom and that's what was the impetus for that show that you had with the everyday pieces from our childhood and the freedom. It's very important for you to transfer your information in life experiences to the next generation, which is how your studio came about.

And then you have the full circle moment of creating that wonderful piece for, um, Crenshaw Destination. That is such a wonderful artist's journey. You know, how you said you left your home, you had to leave home to basically go on this journey and learn these lessons.

And now you're able to share that with your community and how wonderful to have that piece there to kind of give back to your community and also be an inspiration for that younger generation.

But I also like how you say that you create from a feeling with a sense of purpose and a message, like these are all such wonderful things and elements of being an artist, but really being a member of a community. Our culture and our community and being a world citizen, a global citizen, and sharing all of these wonderful ideas.

What I want to know from you is, how has this affected your different communities that you live in?

What have you experienced along this journey with respect to how people are responding to your art and how it's affected others?

Gerard: Most of the time it's a very positive experience no matter where I am. For me, it's most important to be authentically myself and then expressing how I see the world. And some people, you know, don't like it. Some do, but most of the time they really kind of learn something, just a different thought process, being open minded about things.

For the most part, it's been really positive. Like when, I had the showing of, like the sneak peek of the Crenshaw show. A couple of people came to that sculpture and saw it and was like, "Wow, that takes my breath away." and it's the same feeling that people said for the other piece that was in Laguna Beach for the show, uh, Innocence Lost show was like, "Wow, this takes my breath away."

That really is great. It feels like I'm doing something right and I need to keep doing it, even if it may seem odd or embarrassing or sometimes I think it may not work, but I'm driven to do it anyway.

Gerard: I have had some people that have had a negative thing to say about a piece or they saw it and it made them feel a certain way, and I felt that was also positive for me because it allowed me to look at my piece in a different light, in a different way than what I had originally. It's all information and it's all fuel for the next piece. With art too and creating pieces, sometimes things don't Go well, and sometimes molds will burst out or I'm trying to weld something and it's just not bending the right way or it's warping. And even those setbacks I use as information for the next one. If I put too much heat on a weld and I needed it to be smooth, but it started warping it, I'll fix it on that one I'm working on, but for the next one, when I want it to be wavy, I'll use that same technique that was a mistake on another piece and I'll get the result that I'm intending.

So even the setbacks creating work and in life, I try to as quickly as possible view it as something that's going to propel me to the next. It's like, okay, how is this a benefit to me as opposed to dwelling on setbacks or anything? And that's been really helpful in just my journey as a person in not allowing things to get me down for extended periods of time, be it a loss or something else.

Oftentimes when I would travel, it's like, when I would go the wrong way and be like, oh, great opportunity to see something that I wouldn't have seen if I went the right way. So I'm a wanderer and trying to always turn it into a positive.

Susan: This is where I tell all of our listeners that you're going to be joining A-Squared on our trip to Japan and Alaska. And I will just say this, that I, like you, am a wanderer. So if you all see us wandering around, make sure we get back with our group. Would you mind returning us to sender?

Gerard: Right.

Susan: So let me ask you this. If you had a piece of land that was just given to you and you were told create a sculpture garden, anything you want representing your life, your heart, anything, What kinds of things would you put in it?

Gerard: It would be a very eclectic place, actually. And that would be fun. Um,

Susan: My favorite.

Gerard: Yeah. You know, there's a sculpture garden by Isamu Noguchi, in Costa Mesa that I visited and that just really, when I went there, it just kind of moved me.

It would have sculptures in there that would dwarf, the Dwarfia as far as size, the landscape would be very interesting landscape. There would be a sculpture there that would be a solar powered sculpture that would open up as the sun came up and rotate with the sun and then go down and then people plug their phones and cars into it. So the sculpture would be the thing that giving energy. And there would definitely be lots of plants. I love landscaping as well as the sculpture. So it would be really nice, comfortable setting, lots of big boulders and sculptures.

I think each sculpture would be absolutely different, in a different material. And that's one thing that I really like to do. I don't have a really set style or anything. It's all eclectic because I think for me, every thought is completely eclectic as well too. That's something that's on my list of things to do is create a sculpture garden out somewhere and in a remote place that has all these different elements to it.

Susan: I love that. I think our listeners would too. Maybe that'll be our next A Squared trip is we'll be visiting your garden.

Nancy: When it's ready, let us know.

Gerard: Okay. I certainly will.

Nancy: Well, thank you, George, so much for being with us today. I really enjoyed the conversation with you and learning about your journey and learning more about art and just all the different aspects that we covered. So, for our listeners, if you want to learn more, we are going to have a bonus segment with Gerard and he'll share a little bit more with us.

If you'd like to learn more, please subscribe to this podcast and you can hear more from us soon. Thank you for joining us on the Stop Digging podcast.

Gerard: Thanks, Nancy. Thanks, Susan.